VoiceLive 2 with Sax
The VoiceLive 2 from TC Helicon is a pretty badass little box of toys. I bought it to try and create some harmony parts when I’m the only saxophone player on a gig, but I’m starting to explore some of its other uses now too. The box is designed for singers, but I’ve noticed a […]
The VoiceLive 2 from TC Helicon is a pretty badass little box of toys. I bought it to try and create some harmony parts when I’m the only saxophone player on a gig, but I’m starting to explore some of its other uses now too.
The box is designed for singers, but I’ve noticed a few other intrepid souls using it for horns — some sax, trumpet, and trombone players from what I’ve seen. I thought it would be useful to share some of my settings for our non-standard use.
First, the tone controls are super useful but since they are expecting a singer’s voice they need some tweaks for a horn. Since I often play in situations where there is plenty of noise from the drums and bass, I wanted to really focus the frequencies of my horns and cut out the rest so I set some custom settings for the EQ, compressor and gate. I find that this greatly improves the accuracy of the harmonies that I’m trying to create. My EQ settings:
- adaptive: off
- low gain: -12dB
- low freq: 103.7
- high gain: -8db
- high freq: 1107.9
- para gain: 3db
- para freq: 261.4
- para width: 1.3
These low and high settings will cut out the sounds of my horns (tenor and soprano, generally) outside the normal range of the instrument. The parametric settings are centered to be roughly in the middle of my tenor with a 1.3 octave width. If I bump the parametric gain above +3db I encounter some distortion with some of the harmonies, but this may vary depending on a person’s mic setup and how much the input gain is already configured for. To figure out where you should set the high, low and para frequencies for your particular instrument, refer to something like this: http://www.contrabass.com/pages/frequency.html.
As for the harmonies, I voice everything so that my horn is on the top-most note of the chord. I hold the theory that having the real instrument on top makes the whole chord sound more legitimate. For my purposes, I often run one harmony voice a 6th below. It’s a good ‘go-to’ setting to get a quick litte section sound going, but I almost always end up creating custom scales when I really arrange a tune. In addition, I:
- add the same eq settings to the harmony voices
- turn the voicing all the way ‘male’
- keep choir, humanize, and vibrato off (generally)
- keep porta and smooth low (something like 5/30%);
- hold release to 200-300ms (although I’m not convinced about this one…)
For reverb, I generally try to be subtle. I’ve usually take the jazz reverb setting and reduce the time on it significantly. My hope is that it just beefs up the sound rather than imposing a specific reverb scenario in a situation where it will seem out of place.
Here’s an export of my Setup Data:
Hopefully this will encourage some discussion among others who are trying the VoiceLive 2 with horns. Holla’ if you’re out there.
Some of the links I used to research:
Sad to see this post with no comments — I’m sure there are others out there trying to use the VoiceLive 2 with horns.
Seeing if livefyre will help me connect with tchelicon people (or @tchelic people?).
I’m also a sax player and I’ve had the T.C. Helicon VoiceLive 2 Extreme Edition for about a month now. I bought it because I play with DJs to house music a lot and I was lugging a laptop and my motu ultralite to gigs all the time. Thought the VL2 would also be a good addition to my arsenal for electronic improvised music. I find customization quite on the console quite difficult because of the way the display is setup and how small it is, especially when it comes to EQ so your suggestions have been most helpful. I’ll be sure to give them a try and let you know how I get on. Thanks 🙂
Glad to know it’s useful for someone out there.
I’ve gone back and forth on my eq settings. I think I may have been too harsh about chopping off the top range — it makes me sound like I’m in a very small box. I’ll play with the settings some more and post my findings.
I’ve also been having a good time with my new EV mic. In terms of cutting down the feedback, I think this has done wonders, too.
Using an ATPro35 into the voicelive 2, I am going to try your tips, i’all get back to you. I am also running a mandolin through the guitar section. I play all horns but want to test just clarinet for downlow harmonies.
I find clarinet even more difficult to mic for this sort of a situation.
I have a couple AT Pro 35’s that are part of some wireless units. The wireless part was crap, but I actually find the mics are pretty good when I used them wired. I’ve always had the thought that I would use both of them to mic two different parts of the clarinet, maybe getting a more even character to the sound. Or maybe I’ll just break down and buy the AMT WSW…
Hey mate! Ive been using the voicelive2 with trombone for about half a year now. Id be really interested in hearing what other uses you have found for it? Are you only using the reverb, harmony and tone effects? Are you just enhancing the sax sound or do you use it to create a ‘new’ instrument? Here’s a video I made showing some of the effects I normally use:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPLleSl9kso
Yeah, mostly I’ve been using it to fill out the other voices in a horn section when I’m the only guy on the gig. Some delay and effects at various points, but the harmonies are what I focus on.
Because the band leader does looping of his own, it’s a technical challenge to get two looping devices to loop at the same time. Perhaps there’s something that I haven’t explored where we can control these devices via midi, but so far that’s not what I do.
As for your settings, you seem to have a half-beat delay on your delay whereas I generally prefer a more immediate response from my delay. Your approach works well for you when you’re laying down the original rhythmic track, but when you start playing the higher melodies I think you would want to have the option of starting on the downbeat without having to anticipate by half a beat.
I didnt use any delay for any of those effects. However. when you mute the lead but let the harmonies through like i do on most of them, there will be a slight delay while it processes which harmonies to create. Ive asked the people at tc-helicon if theres anything to do about it, but until the hardware gets more powerful it really isnt.
I see your point on the looping. I never use it live cause its so awkward to handle.
Have you got any videos using the harmonies?
But it sounds like you have a half second delay on those harmonies at the very least. The harmonies for me are virtually instantaneous. I use the unit to play complicated and fast lines, and it follows me as I play. I sound like a horn section playing the lines. I honestly think there must be some setting that’s not quite right.
I’ll look for some videos so that you can see and hear what I mean.
Thats interesting, i wouldve loved to get them instantly. Im gonna have to check this out.
Hey Simen, check out this video I made for you:
http://alexscammon.com/2013/08/tc-helicon-voicelive-2-saxophone-harmonizer-demonstration/
Hopefully you can hear the harmonies happening all at once as I’m playing. Just a sixth below what I’m playing.
Hi, I’, a saxplayer too
I’d like to know if the processor voice live 2 or voice live play has effects like wha-wha or envelope filters.
What are the available effects?
Yes and yes. Too many effects to list, really, but both the ones you mentioned are there for sure. You plug an expression pedal in to get control over the effects like the wah.
thanks for this post, i’m a trumpetplayer and i borrowed a voicelive touch to create a ‘one man horn section’ and now i know for sure wich helicon to buy. (voice live 2) i will try to turn the gender of the harmonies to male, as you suggested. now it sometimes sounds a bit weird.. especially in the higher harmonies. thanks a lot. i’m hoping it will sound as good with a trumpet as it does with a sax.. didn’t find any harmonizer videos with a trumpetplayer..
the only downside of the voicelive 2 , i think , is the absence of syncing with ableton or something similar…
kind regards ,
Cedric
For VL2 with a trumpet player, there’s this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHskhaRJ3xA
You could probably get in contact with him via VL2’s message board. I noticed his post there:
http://voicecouncil.com/forum/topic/1738/trumpet-and-vl2-video/
Hope that helps!
@Cedric, how exactly did you want to sync with Ableton? I’ve been able to use my VL2 as midi input for Ableton without any problem, and there are some instructions on TC Helicon’s site about connecting the two: http://www.tc-helicon.com/voicelive-2-total-tutorial-pack/#7
100%
I am a Live Touch 2 user and Ableton Live and I am missing that aspect too
I’m considering buying the Voice live 2 along with a AMT clip mic that will be used both wireless and wired depending on the venue. Are you using a clip mic? How do you have your signal path setup.
Hey Charles,
I use a Samson Airline to the TC Helicon via XLR.
I’ve just bought the AX1 transmitter so that I can wire up my EV N/D468 — I’ve been hearing myself a lot better on the bari when I use that mic, but I can only use it wired for the moment. I plan to use the AX1 on the end of the mic to send to the Samson receiver I already have — hopefully they’ll send me the channel that I asked for so that everything plays nicely together.
For attaching such a bulky mic setup to my horn, I just bought some keen clamps: http://davenportinstrumentrepair.com/keenclamps.php
Hi Alex
The Sysex dump works well for sax
I am a sax player and vocalist. Use midi with the voicelive 2
I am not familiar with Sysex development.
The global tone controls are changed with the dump to suit sax. Short of a reboot is there a Sysex around which will restore the global tone controls back to suit the vocalist.? Have no problem changing preset tone settings as these can be stored
Thanks
Hey Graeme,
Thanks for checking those out, glad they work for you.
As for quickly switching back nad forth, I can’t think of a way. Perhaps we can ask TC-Helicon for a couple ‘presets’ that we can switch between for different settings. I’d like that anyway: settings like the gate are so tempermental and change whether I’m playing an acoustic gig or a big stage.
Cheers!
hey alex , sorry for the late answer. didn’t get any notification of your message. i don’t want to use ableton for recording. i just want to be able to sync the tempo of a live ableton track being played. so i can use the loopfunction and delay’s etc… otherwise i’m not in time with the music. also didn’t manage yet to get a great sound out of the helicon. i bought the voicelive 2. gonna try to work on the EQ today and try the harmonies with a midi keyboard. hope that helps. i will keep you guys posted. still the only good post about this stuff.
grts,
Cedric
Hey Cedric,
Good to know you’re still working on this.
The VoiceLive2 can take midi input as a slave to sync its clock. It can’t send its tempo as master, but I think that should be fine for you. Are you still not able to get it to work?
Cheers!
Where do I find the Wah Wah effect in the TC Helicon VoiceLive 2 ? Which preset ?
I downloaded your presets but when I import them into my Voice Live 2 – Working Data folder nothing happens. No new presets emerge etc? I also note the the file only 1K in size. What am I doing wrong and how do I implement your helpful presents into my VL2? Many thanks!
I couldn’t import the presets as it seems the file may be corrupt (or something on my side is wrong) however, I did make the noted changes to the VL2 environment as posted and it makes a huge difference and I would highly recommend trying this out! The 6th below sounds great. I’m playing tenor and would like a brass section sound (trumpet above, trombone or baritone below) ‘standard ska or commodores type preset’. Can you suggest a preset for me? I’m a bit of a newbie orchestrating for a section. Thanks! Dorian
Hey there DSR,
Gabriel also reported that he had trouble importing the settings. I’m wondering a couple things, namely:
1. what version of the firmware are you using?
2. what version of VoiceSupport are you using?
3. what are the steps you took to import the settings?
As for the section sound, that’s something that I’ve been thinking of working on, too. Let me try a couple things and see what I can come up with.
-Alex
Hmm, I checked the file size and mine is 560bytes. Seems small, but then again, it’s only a handful of settings. I’ll try re-exporting later today and see whether anything’s different.
Thanks!
THANKS FOR SHARING
hello I am trying to import your setup to try it but I don’t know hoe to do it . thanks
Hello, first thanks for everything. I downloaded your presets and I tried to import them into my voice live 2 but I am unable to see it. it came empty. I tryiedd to open it as a new archive also came empty. Do you know what I am doing wrong. I am a new user, and I buy the pedal because of what I heard on your videos so I am a kind of new for this technology> Thanks
Hey there Gabriel,
A couple of questions:
1. what version of the firmware are you using?
2. what version of VoiceSupport are you using?
3. what are the steps you took to import the settings?
Maybe I’ll see something in that which would suggest what’s going wrong.
Thanks for watching the videos!
-Alex
Hi – I’ve been using a VL2 in a cover band for about 5 years. Bought it initially because we wanted to keep the band small (5 piece) which meant 1 horn player. Me. On sax. My drummer saw AWB perform with one sax player using this unit to create the full sax section sounds of AWB. Awesome. I initially played around with it alot. Programmed all our songs using scale mode for chords and voices, with some step sequencing also. Was relatively happy with this though it took too much interaction. I should have tried the midi-from-keys approach but haven’t yet. Instead I simplified to use shift mode with either a fixed 5th or octave. I have to admit I haven’t been very happy with the result and am planning on taking a bunch of time to get some solid harmonies back on track. I like your parametric setting suggestions and will be trying that. Thanks for having a forum to discuss this terrific piece of equipment.
Heya Bob,
Just saw your comment at long last. I’ve been having success with a fixed sixth below and a fixed octave below. Like the AWB guy points out in some interview, having the real sax on the top of the section makes the entire section sound a bit more believable.
Also, play with the gender settings of the voices your add. I think making them more male makes the sound a little less tinny.
Let me know what you’ve discovered!
Cheers,
-Alex
Alex, you said in one of the first posts how you might be changing the EQ settings from the original post above. What are you using now? Also what are your settings for Tone, Compress and Gate? If you have used an envelope filter, do you put it before the Voicelive? Thanks for your help!
Hey there Matt. I’m using the VoiceLive3 now, and I’ll have to take a look at what I’ve been using recently. I general I’ve dialed back the amount of changes I made.
I recall that with the VL2 I started dialing back the changes because the EQ would add some hiss to the sound. The VL3 is better on the front so I might try it again.
I’ll do a dump of the settings next time I’m in the studio and post them here. Glad there are others who are interested in this!
@alex I was trying to do this with the VL2 and wasn’t able to figure it out. Can you post your settings file when you get a chance? I’d love to try it with the latest firmware and see if I have any luck
In terms of dialing the EQ back? I think I just turned the manual EQ settings off so that it wouldn’t have that high-pitched hiss. I haven’t played with the VL2 for a while, I’ve been using the VL3, but I’ll take a look when I get to the studio over the weekend.
Thx for the set up
Your .sys file is empty
Do you mean the .syx file? It seems to download ok for me, but it does look small: 560 bytes. I’ll check it soon and post a working one if that’s broken.
Hello, how block the sound of the other instruments on stage when use harmony on VoiceLive? I try differents sax mics but always the mic catch the sound of guitar or drums.
Thank you!
Hey
I use the voicelive 3 with Sax. Thank you for youre suggestions. When I’m ready, I will give some ideas back.
Why don’t you discuss in the TC HELICONForum?
Thanks — let me know what you come up with!
What mics do you use? I usually had problems with condensers, but dynamic mics have worked ok for me. I use either the EV ND468 or the ND46.
I’m using the voicelive touch 2 with my trumpet, but I cant find the EQ settings; the only place I see where you can control EQ is on the 2nd guitar page, but I thought that was a guitar EQ. How do you manually control the EQ settings?
With the VL2, the EQ settings are within the ‘Tone’ settings. The EQ for the guitar is within the ‘Guitar FX’ settings.
That´s great mate!!
That makes perfect sense and its so inspiring!!
Thanks Alex,
lots of god info & resources here. I’ve not yet applied any of it but will be doing so in the next few weeks .
How to make it work for saxophone voice live touch 2 where do I set the eq
Not exactly sure what you’re asking specifically around getting it to work wit the saxophone. The eq is a global setting that I think lives under the Tone button (it’s been a while since I’ve gotten under the hood of the VL3, so my memory is a little hazy….).
Hey, I’m new to the tech and old school so, not really sure how to set up my TC VoiceLive for my saxophone for harmony. Does anyone have a step by step on how to do that? It would be appreciated and save me a time and headache
Hey there Ed, the specific harmony settings will be specific to what you’re trying to do. One easy way to start would be to turn on just one harmony, set it to a certain key, and set the harmony to be a third above or below you. I think preset #2 is pretty close to this, although you might still need to change the scale if you want to force it to be in a certain key.
As for step-by-step, the VoiceLive manual is pretty good when it comes to step-by-step instructions. Here’s a slightly modified excerpt regarding setting the key:
► If it isn’t selected, select the Vocal Layer by pressing the Layer footswitch.
► Press and HOLD the Harmony footswitch until the Set Key/Scale screen appears.
► Press the Preset up/Preset down footswitches until the key reaches the key you want.
► Tap the Step button repeatedly until the display shows the Scale type that you want.
► Let the Key/Scale screen “time out” and dis-appear (by not doing anything for a few sec-onds).
See how that sounds, and then add more harmony voices and change the voicing as you go.